Plans for Rockwell 5c Collet Draw Bar

While I have a Bison collet chuck for my lathe I also have a collet closer I made and used before I bought the Bison collet chuck. I almost tossed the homemade collet closer only decided to concur off for a while. Eventually, I found myself using the homemade closer because of the xxx second fix-upwards fourth dimension. My 3-Jaw chuck has very trivial runout.

As yous can see the bushing that closes the collet is held in a regular
3-Jaw chuck. Information technology would besides work in a 4-jaw independent chuck if chuck runout was an issue. The yellow line lets me know where the keyway fundamental is located.

The draw bar is one" water pipage with one cease threaded for the 5C collet and a handle welded to the opposite finish. A delrin ring nigh in the centre helps guide the drawbar to the collet threads. The delrin bearing near the handle is a thrust bearing and also centers the depict bar to the spindle bore.

The Draw bar handle is a slice of 3" CRS welded to the water pipage.

This is a handy collet closer almost anyone tin can brand that already has a lathe and a few pieces of chip steel. I realize it is non perfect but I find myself using fairly frequently because of the quick set up-up.

A few more pics:
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v30/j ... %20Closer/

Hope this is of interest,
Jim

Post by **HotGuns** » Mon April 28, 2008 9:16 pm

Dainty Jim...

kinda reminds me of the one I built.

Rather than use a chuck though, I made a piece to fit in the spindle...a number 5 taper I recall, and then fit the collet to information technology. The drawbar, similar yours is a piece of pipe.

I machined a hand bike and tigged it to the back of the spindle where it rides. The whole affair takes less than a minute to set up and is very handy for the small stuff. I machined my arbor while it was in position with light clean up cuts. Almost of the colletes run less than .0003 which is probably as good as I Can wait on a Chinese lathe.

Thanks for the pictures. Its e'er practiced to see what others are doing.

Post by **pkastagehand** » Tue April 29, 2008 11:56 am

I accept thought about setting upwards for 5c on my 12x36. I think I heard Grizzly has the 5MT to 5C adapters but I wondered about making one. I just don't know how hard it is to go the measurements right. I don't accept a lot of stuff for doing internal angular measurements and setups.

How hard is it? Does the newer Machinery's Handbook have specs? I am at work and my old 1942 (11th edition, I got from my Grandfather) does not take the bending just does take the body sizes and thread.

The describe bar should exist easy if I tin make the adapter for the spindle nose.

Paul

Post by **JimGlass** » Tue April 29, 2008 2:31 pm

When y'all make the collet endmost bushing plough the ID and the OD at the same time for concentricity and straightness reasons. I used a long piece of CRS for turning the bushing then parted the bushing off. Use a 5C collet for a cuff. I recomend measuring a few collets to be sure the ID is large enough to have the collets. I accept some newer collets that are tight on the ID.

A few more 5C specifications.
http://www.loganact.com/tips/collet.htm

It is easy to brand.

1 more than thing. The drawbar handle is iii or 4" in diamenter. Drill a hole in the outer bore for a cheater bar for additional tightening. Always remember to remove the cheater bar before starting the lathe.

Thanks for the involvement,
Jim

Post by **calgator** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 two:57 pm

Jim,

I don't mean to ask a stupid question but how do I turn an ID and OD at the same time? Do you mean not to remove it from the chuck? If and so I would think if you plow the outside first the wall would exist to sparse and deflect between the MT5 and the C5, only I'm no expert and then I'one thousand only trying to learn. Would information technology exist meliorate to turn the OD, cut it off and insert it into the spindle and turn the within? If I'm incorrect delight let me know because I've been looking at doing the same thing for my Jet lathe with an MT5 taper spindle.

Mail by **pkastagehand** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 three:14 pm

I was going to wait in my newer MHB when I got home but thank you for that cartoon.

I besides wondered about turning the MT and then putting in place to turn the 5C but maybe at that place is the possibility of spinning or pulling information technology loose when doing the bore...makes more sense to practice information technology as you say.

How long does the bushing accept to be? Does it demand to support the collet for its total length? Seems like ones I've seen like for SB lathes were shortish for the length of the collet.

Paul

Post by **BadDog** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 4:16 pm

You can buy an MT5 to 5C adapter pretty inexpensive.

Or you tin can make it from bar stock. As for how, I would rough plough the straight ID and fit to a white potato/mandrel. And then rough and end plow the OD to fit spindle (MT5, MT4.5, stub MT5, whatever). So fit the adapter into the spindle, marked for orientation, and end plow/polish the ID for the 5C in-situ. This should give you virtually the best repeatable/low run out possible for that spindle.

The ones I've seen leave the OD threads of the 5C exposed behind the bushing. My OEM Rockwell is like that.

Post by **JimGlass** » Tue April 29, 2008 6:48 pm

The ones I've seen leave the OD threads of the 5C exposed backside the bushing.

Skillful point Russ. Nothing gained past having the 5C collet threads within the bushing.

When turning in the lathe we usually recollect of the larger diameters being toward the lathe head and the smaller diameters toward the tailstock. Only on occasion we demand do the contrary. Some machinist have left hand toolbits special ground for this purpose and volition feed from left to right.

To plough the ID and OD at the same time you lot will demand additional bar stock.
The bar stock will need to extend far plenty from the chuck to plow the entire bushing plus a little actress for cutoff. Bore the hole and taper for the 5C collet. The OD can be whatever diameter merely a flang or head will be needed on the adaptor bushing so information technology does not piece of work itself dorsum into the chuck jaws. The flang tin be whatever adaquat width and any bore. To turn the OD you will need to let for the flange or head then plunge your tool striaght into the bushing and so feed from right to left. You could beginning out with a parting tool and course the bushing flange by turning a slot. Then use the slot to advance the turning tool then feed from right to left like normal turning. When done either saw or part off the bushing from the bar stock.

Jim

Post by **HotGuns** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 8:49 pm

How hard is it?

Not also hard.

Here is a picture of the adapter. Its a Morse Taper 5# with the collet taper in it. The drawbar threads into the back of the collet and pulls it into the adapter,which tightens it.

Hither is a moving-picture show of it in the lathe. Your lathe must have a spindle hole big plenty to house the drawbar. I put some actress length on mine s that is sticks out a ways from the face of the flange that holds the chuck to allow my frock to reach information technology all.

Here is a picture of the drawbar handwheel.

This set has turned many minor pieces. I dont know what I'd exercise without information technology.

Mail service by **Mcgyver** » Tue April 29, 2008 9:24 pm

Jim,

consider making an adapter for the spindle. 1 of the luxuries of collets is the concentric repeatability to a fraction of a grand, and much of that reward is taken abroad by belongings information technology in the three jaw....annihilation larger than a morse four 1/2 MT will fit a 5c, otherwise you lot're making a collet chuck

JimGlass wrote:When you make the collet endmost bushing turn the ID and the OD at the same time for concentricity and straightness reasons. I,
Jim

I'd requite the opposite advice in this instance. yous are right unremarkably, this is how you get the ID & OD concentric. However here, you have a hazard for intentionally making them eccentric to compensate for the curl error; the master reason 3 jaws aren't super authentic - in that location is scroll error, and it changes over the whorl simply information technology should be consistent at whatsoever particular diameter - in other words at x dia the run out should be repeatable.

making the collet holder compensate for this repeatable error is easily washed. Turn the OD, and then stamp a #1 somewhere and align this with jaw number ane. Now do all the internal work. ID & OD will exist eccentric by the chuck's fault at that bore. Every fourth dimension you popular the holder in, make certain the marker is aligned with Jaw one and run out of the ID should be minimized if the chuck is tightened about the same amount

Post by **JimGlass** » Midweek Apr 30, 2008 half dozen:43 am

Mcgyver:

Y'all bring upward an excellent point and your technique never crossed my heed. Partly because my bushing was made on a lathe at work then used on my lathe at home. I read your post 2 or iii times before I understood your significant.

Information technology would exist improve to turn the OD first so bore the ID with the bushing in the chuck the manner it will used and also marking the bushing and the chuck and so the bushing is installed with the same orientation each time.

I too have a bushing like the one shown in Bob'southward pic but never made a draw bar for it. They can be purchased from MSC for around $75. That bushing could also be made by turning the OD then inserting it into the spindle taper. Diameter the ID with the bushing already in the spindle. The most accurate machining technique.
Jim

Mail past **Mcgyver** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 8:49 am

well I estimate it didn't assist much being a 24-hour interval tardily,. oh well, grist for the factory

Plans for Rockwell 5c Collet Draw Bar

Bootleg 5C Collet Closer

Bootleg 5C Collet Closer

5C adapters

Thanks Jim

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